Bobby Wagner was 11 the first time the Bill Belichick and Tom Brady led the New England Patriots won a Super Bowl. Wagner was 24 when, as an All-Pro middle linebacker, he faced Brady, Belichick and the Patriots in the Super Bowl, and now, two years later, the Seahawks will face the Patriots with those two teams once again proving to be two of the best teams in the NFL.
"They're definitely a team you look at and say, 'Man, they've done it for a while,'" Wagner said of the Patriots. "They've been doing since I was in high school, before that even. You just hope that when you look back on your career that you were relevant the whole time."
The Seahawks know they have a long ways to go to match the Patriots' current run, but in recent years their resume holds up against any team's, New England included. Since Pete Carroll and John Schneider took over as Seattle's head coach and general manager, the Seahawks have been to the playoffs five times in six seasons, advancing to at least the divisional round every year. The Seahawks have won three NFC West titles in that span, had double-digit win totals in four straight seasons, and played in two Super Bowls, winning one in dominant fashion.
But again, the Seahawks will have to keep it up for a while if they're going to catch up with New England, which in 16 seasons under Belichick has won 13 NFC East titles, including the last seven, appeared in six Super Bowls and won four. Heading into this week's game, both Seattle (5-2-1) and New England (7-1) are again in first place in their respective divisions, both looking like prime candidates to make deep postseason runs.
The success the Patriots and Seahawks are enjoying would be impressive in any era, but what makes it particularly remarkable is that both teams have found a way to sustain excellence in a league that is structured to prevent that from happening. So much of how the current NFL is structured is designed to create parity—to eventually bring good teams back to the pack and help struggling ones become more competitive. Everything from draft order to waiver order to scheduling to the salary cap to free agency should in theory keep dynasties from happing in today's NFL, yet the Patriots are well into a second decade of dominance, while the Seahawks are five years into a very impressive run and showing no signs of slowing down.
So how do they do it? Great coaching is a big part of it, as is quarterback play, and of course talent throughout the roster, but because of free agency and the salary cap, teams change a lot over the years, so there's more to it than just finding good players—though that work done by scouting departments is imperative.
"It's the culture, the culture and environment," Seahawks receiver Doug Baldwin said. "Obviously I've never been to the New England side of it, but here, the always-compete mantra, it always allows the cream to rise to the top. When you have that environment, you're always getting the best out of guys in the locker room, then you mix that in with a fun environment with the music blaring, with celebrating individuality, you get this consistent, constant fun competitive nature. I think it's probably similar over there. There are things we don't know that go on inside the organization, but from what I've heard, it's very similar in terms of the competition level."
From a Seahawks perspective, one of the key elements to success has been the culture Carroll has built not just in his locker room, but within the entire organization. Yes, Carroll keeps things fun, but it goes beyond that. It’s embracing individualism in a way that allows players to be their very best on and off the field.
"I think Coach Carroll does a great job as far as allowing players to be themselves, then on game day everybody can just go out there and play ball," defensive end Cliff Avril said. "It's a very comfortable place to come to work every day. You're having a blast, you're shooting hoops, you're listening to music, so you just feel rejuvenated every time you come here, and that allows guys to go out there and play for each other and have fun."
Seahawks defensive tackle Sealver Siliga, who previously played for the Patriots, says both head coaches have a special ability to maximize what they get out of their players.
"Obviously it's two great coaches who know have to pull the best out of their players," Siliga said. "Then both teams have a good core group of players on both teams who help get the newcomers up to speed right away."
For both Carroll and Belichick, one of the keys to sustained success has been finding their philosophies and sticking to them.
"It's staying true to who you are," Carroll said. "Look at the (Patriots), they haven't changed much over the years. There are changes, they've been from 3-4 to 4-3 at times and stuff when they need to, but their ability to stay kind of looking like the same football team for the last 8 or 10 years, I think it's been a remarkable accomplishment—it's probably longer than that. They've been able to fit things together and stay true to how they are and never waver. That's a big challenge, and the core players allow you to stay with that and stay true to it."
Mutual Admiration
A pretty strong case can be made that the two head coaches facing off on Sunday are the best two in the NFL right now, and both have a healthy level of respect for the job the other has done with his team. When Carroll talks about his vision for sustained success, he doesn't set goals for Super Bowl wins; he wants to continually own his division, which gives his team the best chance for playoff success. That's something Carroll witnessed first-hand while coaching in a 1990s AFC East that was dominated by Marv Levy's Buffalo Bills. Now, it's the Patriots winning division title after division title, something Carrol respects immensely.
"Nobody's done it better than they have," Carroll said. "Of course I've watched them intensely over the years, and I really admire the job that they have done, the consistency that they've found. It's a great tribute to the coaching, because Bill has been the constant, he and Tom have been the constants to that. The coaches have changed under him and the players have changed, but the consistency of their performance and the level and style of performance has always stayed at the top level. We've admired that for a long time."
That respect goes both ways, with Belichick equally impressed with how the Seahawks have done things, even if the two teams have at times taken different approaches to achieve high levels of success.
"When we look at Seattle, we schematically are different from them, but there's nobody better than Seattle, so I think there's a lot of different ways to be successful," Belichick said on a conference call with Seattle-area media. "I think that Coach Carroll, John Schneider and those guys have done a great job of putting together a championship team. They're good every week. They're good every year. They lead the league in a lot of categories consistently; the most important one being wins. They know how to win and they know how to compete every single week, and that's something that we've tried to take note of from them and find ways to help our team do a better job in those areas, too."
Carroll too has learned plenty from watching Belichick over the years.
"I think trying to be really good at everything that you do is probably something that our teams are similar in in some regards," Carroll said. "If you look at a lot of numbers, you see there's a lot of similarities in there over the long haul… Really, again, staying true to who you are and your approach so you can be really good at it and you can get going so you can do it well, regardless of what's going on the other side that you're facing or as the changes come by."
Get to know the faces of the New England Patriots' offensive and defensive units heading into the team's Week 10 matchup with the Seattle Seahawks.
New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady (12) smiles during the second half of an NFL football game against the Buffalo Bills Sunday, Oct. 30, 2016, in Orchard Park, N.Y. (AP Photo/Bill Wippert)
New England Patriots wide receiver Chris Hogan (15) walks on the sidelines during the second half of an NFL football game against the Buffalo Bills Sunday, Oct. 30, 2016, in Orchard Park, N.Y. (AP Photo/Bill Wippert)
New England Patriots wide receiver Danny Amendola (80) looks on from the sidelines during a week 7 NFL football game against the Pittsburgh Steelers, Sunday, Oct 23, 2016, in Pittsburgh. The Patriots won 27-16. (Scott Boehm via AP)
New England Patriots tackle Nate Solder looks on in the second half of an NFL football game against the New York Giants Thursday, Sept. 3, 2015, in Foxborough, Mass. (AP Photo/Winslow Townson)
New England Patriots' Joe Thuney (62) reacts on the bench during an NFL football game against the Cleveland Browns, Sunday, Oct. 9, 2016, in Cleveland. New England won 33-13. (AP Photo/David Richard)
New England Patriots rookie offensive lineman Shaq Mason looks on from the sidelines during action against the New Orleans Saints during a preseason NFL football game in New Orleans on Saturday, Aug. 22, 2015. The Patriots won the game, 26-24. (G. Newman Lowrance via AP)
New England Patriots' David Andrews (60) reacts on the bench during an NFL football game against the Cleveland Browns, Sunday, Oct. 9, 2016, in Cleveland. New England won 33-13. (AP Photo/David Richard)
New England Patriots offensive lineman Marcus Cannon (61) rests during an NFL game against the Arizona Cardinals on Sunday, Sept. 11, 2016, in Glendale, Az. The Patriots won the game, 23-21. (Greg Trott via AP)
New England Patriots tight end Rob Gronkowski (87) has a hearty laugh while joking with a teammate as he gets set to do a postgame television interview after the 2016 NFL week 8 regular season football game against the Buffalo Bills on Sunday, Oct. 30, 2016 in Orchard Park, N.Y. The Patriots won the game 41-25. (Paul Spinelli via AP)
New England Patriots tight end Martellus Bennett (88) rests during an NFL game against the Arizona Cardinals on Sunday, Sept. 11, 2016, in Glendale, Az. The Patriots won the game, 23-21. (Greg Trott via AP)
New England Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman (11) looks on from the sidelines during a week 7 NFL football game against the Pittsburgh Steelers, Sunday, Oct 23, 2016, in Pittsburgh. The Patriots won 27-16. (Scott Boehm via AP)
New England Patriots running back James White smiles before a NFL football game against the Miami Dolphins at Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, Mass. Sunday, Sept. 18, 2016. (Winslow Townson/AP Images for Panini)
New England Patriots running back LeGarrette Blount (29) walks off the field after a NFL game against the Houston Texans at Gillette Stadium in Foxboro, Mass. on Thursday, Sept. 22, 2016. The Patriots defeated the Texans 27-0. (Kirby Lee/NFL)
New England Patriots defensive end Chris Long during a NFL football game against the Miami Dolphins at Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, Mass. Sunday, Sept. 18, 2016. (Winslow Townson/AP Images for Panini)
New England Patriots defensive tackle Alan Branch during the first half of a preseason NFL football game against the New Orleans Saints Thursday, Aug. 11, 2016, in Foxborough, Mass. (AP Photo/Winslow Townson)
New England Patriots defensive lineman Malcom Brown (90) during the second half of an NFL football game against the Miami Dolphins Sunday, Sept. 18, 2016, in Foxborough, Mass. (AP Photo/Stew Milne)
New England Patriots defensive tackle Vincent Valentine during a NFL football game against the Miami Dolphins at Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, Mass. Sunday, Sept. 18, 2016. (Winslow Townson/AP Images for Panini)
New England Patriots defensive lineman Jabaal Sheard (93) looks on as he walks off the playing field during a week 7 NFL football game against the Pittsburgh Steelers, Sunday, Oct 23, 2016, in Pittsburgh. The Patriots won 27-16. (Scott Boehm via AP)
New England Patriots defensive lineman Trey Flowers (98) looks on as he walks off the playing field during a week 7 NFL football game against the Pittsburgh Steelers, Sunday, Oct 23, 2016, in Pittsburgh. The Patriots won 27-16. (Scott Boehm via AP)
New England Patriots inside linebacker Elandon Roberts during an NFL football game against the Cincinnati Bengals at Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, Mass. Sunday, oct. 16, 2016. (Winslow Townson/AP Images for Panini)
New England Patriots linebacker Barkevious Mingo (51) during the second half of an NFL football game against the Miami Dolphins Sunday, Sept. 18, 2016, in Foxborough, Mass. (AP Photo/Stew Milne)
New England Patriots outside linebacker Dont'a Hightower (54) smiles on the sideline during the 2016 NFL preseason football game against the Carolina Panthers on Friday, Aug. 26, 2016 in Charlotte, N.C. The Patriots won the game 19-17. (Paul Spinelli via AP)
New England Patriots' Rob Ninkovich before an NFL football game against the Cincinnati Bengals at Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, Mass. Sunday, oct. 16, 2016. (Winslow Townson/AP Images for Panini)
New England Patriots Logan Ryan looks on from the sidelines against the Denver Broncos during an NFL AFC Championship football game, Sunday, Jan. 24, 2016, in Denver. The Broncos won the game, 20-18. (G. Newman Lowrance via AP)
New England Patriots cornerback Malcolm Butler during the first half of a preseason NFL football game against the New Orleans Saints Thursday, Aug. 11, 2016, in Foxborough, Mass. (AP Photo/Winslow Townson)
New England Patriots strong safety Patrick Chung leaves the field after their preseason NFL football game against the New Orleans Saints Thursday, Aug. 11, 2016, in Foxborough, Mass. (AP Photo/Winslow Townson)
July 31, 2016; Foxborough, MA, USA; New England Patriots defensive back Devin McCourty (32) takes the field during New England Patriots Training Camp at Gillette Stadium. Anthony Nesmith/Cal Sport Media (Cal Sport Media via AP Images)
New England Patriots' Stephen Gostkowski (3) reacts on the bench during an NFL football game against the Cleveland Browns, Sunday, Oct. 9, 2016, in Cleveland. New England won 33-13. (AP Photo/David Richard)
New England Patriots punter Ryan Allen (6) on the field for team warm ups prior to a NFL preseason football game against the New York Giants on Thursday, Sept 1, 2016 in East Rutherford, N.J. The Giants defeated the Patriots 17-9. (Jim Mahoney via AP)
New England Patriots Joe Cardona #49 is seen on the sidelines against the Pittsburgh Steelers during an NFL football game, Thursday, Sept. 10, 2015, in Foxborough, Mass. (AP Photo/Gregory Payan)
Not as Different as They Might Seem
On the surface, there might not be two coaches in the league who are less alike that Carroll and Belichick. But even if their personalities come across differently in press conferences or on the sideline, the have a lot more in common than people might think, ranging from their defensive backgrounds to their fierce competitiveness to the way they have been able to build winning cultures that allow their teams to sustain success in a league set up to keep that from happening.
When Belichick was talking earlier this week about the success of undrafted free agents on New England's roster, he explained it by saying, "We try to create a competitive situation and just let the players decide how it works out… We let the competition bring out the best in everyone?" Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
Lawyer Milloy played for Carroll both in New England and Seattle, and also played two seasons under Belichick with the Patriots. Prior to his two former teams meeting in Super Bowl XLIX, Milloy noted that the two "might seem different, but they’re very similar. They're going to compete to get that locker room atmosphere right. Individuals are not bigger than the process. If you do anything to sway the direction of the team in the wrong way, you're out of there. Everybody thinks Pete is a happy-go-lucky player's coach or whatever, but look at his first year when we had (284 player) transactions. Everybody says he's a player's coach, but all the players were coming in every day looking to see if their name was still on the roster.
"The biggest difference is one's got a smile on his face, the other one doesn't, but the ultimate goal is to win championships, and both love, love winning. To be a good head coach, you've got to be a tremendous facilitator to build the right atmosphere; both those guys do that."
It's All About the Ball
The Seahawks and Patriots have played very different styles of football over the years, and what has helped one team succeed hasn't always been a big part of the other team's game, but if you're looking for one concrete explanation for both team's sustained success, look no further than turnover differential.
Since 2012, which is Russell Wilson's rookie season and also the year that marks the Seahawks turning a corner under Carroll, the Patriots lead the NFL in turnover differential at plus-56. The Seahawks are a close second at plus-52, followed by a massive gap between them and the third-best team in that all-important statistical measure, Carolina at plus-29.
"It starts with taking care of the football and not giving it up," Carroll said. "We have sort of similar turnover ratios over the years, there's stuff there that I really admire the way they're able to hang on to the ball. They've been great with not fumbling the football, and right now they haven't thrown an interception yet, if you can imagine that."
Of course no player is more important to ball security than the quarterback, which is a big reason why the Seahawks and Patriots have been so good. Brady will go down as one of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game, and as Carroll mentioned, he has been the one constant for New England over this run other than the head coach. And just as Brady has helped New England win with a changing roster, Wilson, along with Carroll and Schneider, is one of the biggest reasons the Seahawks are a threat to stay on top for a long time. And it's no coincidence that in addition to putting up big numbers, both of those quarterbacks are great at taking care of the football.
"It's so important," Carroll said of quarterbacks avoiding turnovers. "You're seeing one of the great illustrations of why programs can stay winning. Without that, it just doesn't happen. You've got to have a great dedication and respect for the ball, you have to do that. We're trying to exemplify that better than anybody's ever done it over a long period of time. You keep cranking out that emphasis, and Russell leads the charge. He's got the ball in his hands on every snap on offense. They are great at it too. All of the factors, if you want to get down to one, I would say that would be the most key and crucial factor to both our teams and why we win some games and keep making it challenging every year."
The Seahawks currently lead the all-time regular season record, going 9-8 in 17 matchups. They'll look to make it double digit victories on Sunday Night Football this Sunday, September 20 at CenturyLink Field. Game Center
Morris Bradshaw, bottom, New England Patriots receiver, makes the catch from quarterback Steve Grogan on the three yard line and fumbles the ball out of bounds while being landed on by Kenny Easley (45), Seattle Seahawks, to set up a later touchdown at the end of the first half during their game in Seattle, Dec. 19, 1982. (AP Photo/Gary Stewart)
Seattle Seahawks receiver Steve Largent (80) grabs the ball above the head of New England Patriot defender Rick Sanford (25) to complete a 20-yard touchdown pass from Seattle quarterback Jim Zorn in the second quarter at Seattle, Sept. 21, 1980. (AP Photo)
New England Patriot quarterback Steve Grogan, (14), releases a pass Seattle Seahawk Bill Gregory, (77), during the first half of their game on Sunday afternoon, Sept. 21, 1980 in the Kingdome in Seattle. Grogan completed 15 passes for 271 yards and three touchdowns during the game as the Patriots beat the Seahawks 37-31. (AP Photo)
New England Patriots quarterback Steve Grogan holds on to the ball as he is sacked by Seattle Seahawks Jeff Bryant during first quarter action at Sullivan Stadium in Foxboro, Mass., Sept. 16, 1984. (AP Photo/Mike Kullen)
Tony Collins (33) running back for the New England Patriots, is tripped up during first half action against the Seattle Seahawks in the Kingdome in Seattle, Dec. 19, 1982. Moving towards Collins is Seahawks safety Kenny Easley. (AP Photo/David Ekren)
New England Patriots Craig James, right, heads upfield with Seattle Seahawks Fredd Young (50), along for the ride, during 1st quarter action at Sullivan Stadium in Foxboro, Mass., Sept. 21, 1986. (AP Photo)
New England Patriots Tony Collins (33) struggles for that extra yard despite the efforts of Seattle Seahawks Kenny Easley (45) and Keith Butler (53) during first quarter action at Sullivan Stadium in Foxboro, Mass., Sept. 21, 1986. (AP Photo/Mike Kullen)
New England Patriots' Irving Fryar (80) takes the ball from Steve Grogan and moves around Seattle Seahawks' end to score in the second quarter of the game in Seattle, Nov. 17, 1985. (AP Photo/Barry Sweet)
Seattle Seahawks linebackers Bruce Schultz (58) and Tony Woods (57) and nose tackle Joe Nash (72) team up to stop New England Patriots fullback Bob Perryman (34) during an NFL game in Foxboro, Mass., Dec. 4, 1988. The Patriots defeated the Seahawks 13-7. (AP Photo/Damian Strohmeyer)
New England Patriots fullback Sam Gash (33) is seen in action during an NFL game against the Seattle Seahawks Sept 19, 1993, at Foxboro Stadium in Foxborough, Mass. (Allen Kee via AP)
Seattle Seahawks wide receiver Brian Blades (89) is tackled as he runs upfield with the ball during an NFL game against the New England Patriots Sept. 19, 1993, in Foxborough, Mass. (Allen Kee via AP)
New England Patriots wide receiver David Patten (86) side steps Seattle Seahawks corner back Ken Lucas (21) as Patten heads for the end zone during second quarter action of their NFL game Sunday afternoon Oct. 17, 2004 in Foxboro Mass. (AP Photo/Adam Hunger)
Seattle Seahawks quarterback Matt Hasselback, right, throws a pass under pressure from New England Patriots defensive lineman Vince Wilfork (75) during the game in Foxboro, Mass., on Sunday, Oct. 17, 2004. The Patriots won their 20th straight game with a 30-20 victory. (AP Photo/ Robert E. Klein)
Seattle Seahawks' Julian Peterson, right, brings down New England Patriots' Kevin Faulk on a reception by Faulk in the first half of an NFL football game Sunday, Dec. 7, 2008, in Seattle. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)
New England Patriots running back Sammy Morris goes over the top of Seattle Seahawks' defensive tackle Rocky Bernard (99) to score a touchdown in the fourth quarter of an NFL football game, Sunday, Dec. 7, 2008, at Qwest Field in Seattle. The Patriots beat the Seahawks 24-21. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)
Seattle Seahawks defensive back Michael Boulware (28) separates New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady from his helmut during the game in Foxboro, Mass., on Sunday, Oct. 17, 2004. The Patriots won their 20th straight game with a 30-20 victory. (AP Photo/ Robert E. Klein)
Seattle Seahawks quarterback Matt Hasselback, right, throws a pass under pressure from New England Patriots defensive lineman Vince Wilfork (75) during the game in Foxboro, Mass., on Sunday, Oct. 17, 2004. The Patriots won their 20th straight game with a 30-20 victory. (AP Photo/ Robert E. Klein)
New England Patriots tight end Daniel Graham (82) looks to get around Seattle Seahawks defender Marcus Trufant during the game in Foxboro, Mass., on Sunday, Oct. 17, 2004. The Patriots won their 20th straight game with a 30-20 victory. (AP Photo/ Robert E. Klein)
Seattle's Doug Baldwin falls into the end zone with his second touchdown of the game.
Seattle's Russell Wilson and New England's Rob Gronkowksi share a laugh at the pregame coin-toss.
Kam Chancellor leads the Seahawks in a victory yell after the victory at New England.
Chris Matthews leaps high and catches the Seahawks second touchdown of the game but the first in his N.F.L. career to tie the game at 14-14 just before halftime.
Richard Sherman and Kam Chancellor lead the Legion of Boom in their traditional pregame huddle right before taking the field for warmups.
Seahawks fans including the loyal "Big Lo" (holding Sea-Fence) sign, send the team off near SeaTac Airport.
Kevin Pierre-Louis and Tyvis Powell sport Celtics basketball jerseys for the trip to Boston. Pierre-Louis has repped a basketball team from the opposing city for each road trip.
Jermaine Kearse nearly comes up with this catch on a deep route which was broken up at the last minute.
Seahawks receiver Doug Baldwin hauls in his third TD catch of the night, which would provide the eventual game-winner.
Receiver Tyler Lockett cuts towards the middle of the field after a reception in the second quarter.
Head referee Bill Vinovich flips the coin for Super Bowl XLIX as captains and honorary captains for both teams convened at midfield.
Seahawks running back Christine Michael hurdles New England's Malcolm Butler in the first half.
